03-29-05 WSMazch 29, 2005
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MINUTES
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION -March 29, 2005
A work session of the Hopkins City Council was called to order by Mayor Gene
Maxwell at 6:30 p.m. on March 29, 2005, at the City Hall. Council members Brausen,
Johnson, Rowan and Thompson were present. City personnel present were City Manager
Rick Getschow, Police Chief Craig Reid, Facilities Manager Jay Strachota, Finance
Director Christine Hazkess and Public Works Director Steve Stadler. In the audience was
Ann Donaldson of 3 Webster Place, Hopkins..
Recreational Vehicles on Private Property
City Manager Getschow said the Council had received a letter from a concerned
resident about a dirt bike trail built in the neighborhood. Mr. Genellie looked into statutes
and other cities' ordinances, which he put into a memo simply to start discussion. The
Council could choose 5 different routes: 1) Adopt an ordinance banning recreational
vehicle use on private property, which might have legal issues; 2) Limit hours they can be
used, which some cities (including Golden Valley, Robbinsdale and Plymouth) have
done; 3) Use the existing nuisance ordinance through the inspection department; 4) Use
Section 555 of the Zoning Code which establishes noise standazds; 5) Use Section 530.12
of the Zoning Code, which prohibits skateboazd ramps and similaz structures in
residential azeas.
Chief Reid said the noise ordinance would involve buying a decibel meter ($3-
5,000), but the drawback is noise is usually measured from the neazest public access
(sidewalk, alley, etc.) which may not work for this azea because of the topography.
Measurements from private property have not held up in court because of issues in
apartment buildings, etc.
Mayor Maxwell asked about Hopkins' definition of recreational vehicle. Mr.
Getschow said he was not sure, but it would be in the city code. Mayor Maxwell noted
Plymouth has a definition in their time limits.
Mr. Brausen said time limits don't mean much when a noise is by one's window,
especially in the summer; he can't imagine building a dirt bike trail on a residential lot.
Ms. Johnson asked if a very lazge lot size could be used as a limitation; Mr. Getschow
said that would involve option 1. Mr. Thompson noted BelAir has some 5-acre lots.
Mayor Maxwell asked if age could be a factor. Chief Reid said there is no age
limit on private property. For example, a 12-year-old can drive a golf cart on the course,
but it would be illegal as soon as he enters a parking lot as that is a public access azea.
Mr. Rowan asked if noise was the major concern and was told it is. Ms. Johnson
noted a further issue would be deterioration of the neighborhood, sale prices of homes
could be lessened by the dirt bike trail's presence. Mr. Thompson said the nuisance
ordinance seems the best route as it says "threatens the public peace...or which is
offensive.." but he hates to spend money for a decibel meter. He also wonders about
going beyond "recreational vehicle" as some street vehicles like motorcycles could
become a similaz issue. He later added he has problems with telling people what they can
or cannot do with their property; eliminate the noise and there is no need for the track.
Mr. Rowan suggested "recreational vehicle" could be defined as "any vehicle being used
recreationally." Mr. Brausen added using an ATV for plowing a driveway would be legal
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then. Chief Reid suggested incorporating driving on an unimproved portion of the
property.
- Mayor Maxwell asked if those on the streets, especially in the summer, aze
licensed. Chief Reid said most aze. Some ride pocket bikes or motorized skateboazds,
which aren't; but that is not an enforcement problem. Here the enforcement problem is it
is on private property. He added he has authority from the state to issue licenses for
special cases, such as one he issued to a Dow Tower resident so he could get groceries.
The city could also impose limitations to manufacturers' specs, which are usually quieter,
but that raises inspection problems as it would involve another level of training.
Mayor Maxwell felt the city attomey should look at definitions as he does not see
how the nuisance ordinance or lot size could work; he suggested looking at Plymouth's
definitions. Mr. Rowan said defining by use rather than noise seemed wise. Ms. Johnson
suggested having the attomey also check if zoning changes could be made to prohibit dirt
bike trails.
Mayor Maxwell asked Ms. Donaldson if she had talked to the neighbor. She said
she had not, but has talked to 5 other neighbors, who are also upset. Mr. Brausen felt the
neighbor should be notified, the sooner the better; Ms. Johnson agreed he should know a
complaint has been lodged. Mr. Rowan felt the city needs something to cite before
notification. Mayor Maxwell noted the public notice process for ordinance change, etc.
would be notification. Chief Reid said he could go and "test the waters."
In response to Ms. Donaldson's concerns regazding this and other potential code
violations, Reid noted that calls to police do put it on record, but added police records aze
part of the public record. Mayor Maxwell noted calls to the inspection department aze
not.
General Consensus was that city staff should pursue a new ordinance prohibiting
the use of recreational vehicles (not yet fully defined) on private property. The City
Attorney will be involved in this process.
Council Tour of Police Department
Police Chief Reid led the Council throughout the department so they could see the
Phase III completion.
Skatepark Agreement
Facilities Manager Jay Strachota said 3Td Lair has changed their minds on the
agreement. They now want Hopkins to invest $10,000 per year for each yeaz of the 5-
yeaz contract. This leaves Hopkins with 4 options: 1) Agree to 3`d Lair's new proposal;
2) Sell the equipment and purchase Tier I equipment; 3) Operate the park with city staff;
4) Sell the equipment and not rebuild a skatepazk.
He said a second issue he wants direction on is that in the past the Skatepazk has
been looked at on a yeaz-by-yeaz basis. The Jaycees had committed to $98,000 for
equipment and $30,000 for grading, blacktop, etc. They did pay the first part, but have
been unable to pay the $30,000. As a result, there is a negative cash of $22,000 in the
Skatepazk account. Part of the problem is that the first yeaz was very profitable -- $56,000
- so it was decided to use their income for half of Taber's salary, which started the
negative cash flow. Later that change was lowered to $5,000. Finance Director Hazkess
noted Jaycee's first commitment was totally paid; the second was not as circumstances
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changed for the Jaycees -the laws changed and some of their events made no money
because of bad weather. It could be absorbed from the Pazk Dedication Fund to the
Skatepazk Fund. Mayor Maxwell asked if a letter had been sent to the Jaycees. Mr.
Strachota said he had talked to them and they do not see how they can do it. Ms. Johnson
suggested sending a letter and see if they could perhaps pay a little each yeaz. Mayor
Maxwell added it should be clear Hopkins is not demanding the money. Mr. Stadler
added if Hopkins wants to continue the Tier II level, it could be mentioned some
payments would make that possible. Later Mr. Strachota noted when he talked to the
Jaycees, they said they would like to see the Skatepark continue; but if the city cannot
afford it, they would not object to closing it.
Later Ms. Hazkess said the Skatepazk could be placed in the general fund, as
opposed to continuing as a special revenue fund, since it may not have a revenue
component. Hopkins could still chazge admission fees.
General discussion followed on the $10,000 per yeaz request from 3rd Lair. Mr.
Strachota said this amount would be strictly for materials, which would be paid for on
receipts shown; 3`d Lair would supply the labor and the equipment would belong to
Hopkins. Mayor Maxwell asked about selling the present equipment. Mr. Strachota said
those he talked to had never seen it on the mazket but seemed to think Hopkins would get
about $50,000 or enough for Tier I equipment. Council members noted this would mean
the Skatepazk would need to be moved. Mr. Strachota added there aze only 4 Tier II pazks
in the metro azea: Roseville Oval, Maple Grove; a partnership by Southdale Y, Richfield
& Edina, while everyone has Tier I. He noted 3rd Lair had a warehouse location on
Franklin three years ago, and now has a good indoor location in Golden Valley. He feels
and Lair can network, while city staff doesn't have the connections to promote the
Skatepazk so costs aze more. Staff could only keep it open week-ends in May, 6 days a
week in the summer, week-ends in September; he later noted besides staff time there it
would also involve administrative staff time. 3rd Lair would have it open much more - 7
days over spring break, week-ends during school, long days all summer as they would
also run programs, lessons and clinics. He noted last yeaz there were 2000 visits by 1200
individuals.
Mr. Brausen asked if 3`d Lair would consider getting $10,000 the first yeaz and
$5,000 a yeaz for the next fow. Mayor Maxwell agreed he could see the initial amount,
but not for fow more yeazs. Bruce Rowan suggested asking them about revenue sharing
at a certain threshold to help offset the money Hopkins puts in.
Ms. Johnson asked about the `outs' each party would have. Mr. Strachota said on
a one-yeaz contract almost anything could be used. On a 5-yeaz it would involve legal
issues, safety issues, etc. Ms. Johnson said a chwch in Champlin has a skatepazk; could
the city look into having a chwch, etc. run it. Mr. Strachota said inswance issues would
raise problems. Mr. Stadler said if Hopkins wants a vibrant Tier II skatepazk, they need
someone who knows what they are doing. Otherwise, we should go to a Tier I. Mr.
Rowan agreed. Mr. Thompson said he would like to see 3rd Lair do it, but can't see a
$10,000 per yeaz commitment for 5 years. Mayor Maxwell agreed that $10,000 was okay
the first yeaz, but $3-5,000 after that would be his suggestion.
Mr. Brausen suggested looking at other options, such as $2000 from the general
fund, seeing if Minnetonka might help, asking for donations. Mayor Maxwell said going
to all the clubs for small amounts might work and suggested putting an article in the
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newsletter. Later he added perhaps the city could put $3,000 a year in the capital
improvement fund.
Mr. Strachota asked what the Council would choose if 3'~ Lair will not agree.
Mayor Maxwell said he feels we have to keep the Skatepark open this yeaz, but could
then phase it out. Mr. Rowan would choose to sell the equipment and go to Tier I
although he would not object to keeping it open this yeaz. Mr. Thompson would want to
close it this yeaz while options are looked at. Mayor Maxwell disagreed; and Mr.
Strachota said if it is closed, it would have to be fenced or get the equipment out due to
city liability. Mr. Rowan added he feels we cannot ask for donations when the pazk is run
by someone for profit. Mr. Stadler noted if it goes to Tier I it would need to go to the
Park Board.
General Consensus was that the Council wants to keep the Skatepazk open if
possible. They instructed Mr. Strachota to see if 3Td Lair would consider aone-yeaz
agreement with the city putting in $10,000 of improvements. Also, he could explore
what the 3'a Lair would request in years 2-5 that would be less than $10,000 with a
revenue share component. They also want a detailed list of what the $10,000 would get
each yeaz of their 5-year plan. He should also check out what the equipment could be
sold for. Opinion was divided if an agreement cannot be reached with 3`d Lair.
Sewer Backup Insurance
Financial Director Harkess said the cities in the metro area with this insurance aze
West St. Paul, New Brighton and Coon Rapids. She talked to them, and all said the main
reason they got it was for PR, although it was added to utility bills. Hastings had it and
dropped it as it was not cost-effective as they did not charge residents. She noted it pays
$10,000 "per incident" -but if 10 homes were affected, it would still be one incident.
Cost to residents would be under 20 cents per month, but the rate is built on the total city
premium; if it goes up so would this. Also we would need to meet the underwriters'
provisions, the biggest thing would be writing a manual. It covers only city-owned lines,
not the homeowner's line. She does not feel it is "a big bang for the buck."
Mr. Getschow noted the last incident before the recent one was in 2003. He noted
if the homeowner has insurance, that insurance takes precedence and he might get
nothing from this insurance. Mr. Rowan felt it was worthwhile for under 20 cents a
month. Mr. Brausen felt people would not understand and would cancel their own
insurance and then blame the city. Mr. Thompson agreed. Mr. Stadler asked if it would
be a possibility to not chazge residents so they wouldn't cancel insurance.
General Consensus was to wait for more information and to allow Council
members to talk to insurance people. Utilities Supt. Lauseng should check out what
would need to be done. Something should be put in the newsletter suggesting that city
residents obtain their own sewer-back-up insurance through their agent.
Other
Mr. Stadler said there were 2 good meetings on Shady Oak Road, with lots of
good input.
Ms. Johnson wanted to express thanks to all who put together the State of the
City. She heard comments from attendees they liked it in the afternoon as they could
mingle more.
Mr. Brausen added he thought Mr. Getschow had given them a good process.
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Mr. Thompson asked how Halley Homes acquired school property without a
public bidding process. Mr. Getschow will get information and if any contact has been
made with the city about zoning. Mr. Thompson would like to keep being updated on the
eminent domain issue. He also emphasized page 5 of the update on city officials
contacting local legislators on the MFHA housing grants, funding for state Challenge and
Economic Development Housing Grant Program.
Mr. Getschow said the material on Block 64 is not complete as they have not
submitted everything. He will let the Council know by Friday whether a work session on
this issue will occur on Tuesday, Apri15.
Mayor Maxwell passed azound a letter from someone who got medical emergency
help praising city response. He also mentioned the regional council for transportation.
Mr. Getschow mentioned a Boy Scout sent a letter asking about Burger King
closing. He asked for confirmation that Council did not want to sign resolutions for the
Minnesota Smoke Free Coalition and the Gay-Lesbian Proclamation. Council agreed. He
mentioned the Bridging the Water Gap Conference on April 15 to which Mayor Maxwell
will take a resolution. The State of the County address will be April 1.
Mayor Maxwell asked for input on his meeting with county officials Wednesday.
Light rail and Shady Oak were suggested.
Ms. Johnson moved adjournment. Mr. Brausen seconded. On a 5-0 vote the
meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Kasey Kester, Secretary
ATTEST:
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Eugene Jr axwell, Mayor
COUNCIL MEMBERS: