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03-29-05 WSMazch 29, 2005 Page 1 MINUTES CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION -March 29, 2005 A work session of the Hopkins City Council was called to order by Mayor Gene Maxwell at 6:30 p.m. on March 29, 2005, at the City Hall. Council members Brausen, Johnson, Rowan and Thompson were present. City personnel present were City Manager Rick Getschow, Police Chief Craig Reid, Facilities Manager Jay Strachota, Finance Director Christine Hazkess and Public Works Director Steve Stadler. In the audience was Ann Donaldson of 3 Webster Place, Hopkins.. Recreational Vehicles on Private Property City Manager Getschow said the Council had received a letter from a concerned resident about a dirt bike trail built in the neighborhood. Mr. Genellie looked into statutes and other cities' ordinances, which he put into a memo simply to start discussion. The Council could choose 5 different routes: 1) Adopt an ordinance banning recreational vehicle use on private property, which might have legal issues; 2) Limit hours they can be used, which some cities (including Golden Valley, Robbinsdale and Plymouth) have done; 3) Use the existing nuisance ordinance through the inspection department; 4) Use Section 555 of the Zoning Code which establishes noise standazds; 5) Use Section 530.12 of the Zoning Code, which prohibits skateboazd ramps and similaz structures in residential azeas. Chief Reid said the noise ordinance would involve buying a decibel meter ($3- 5,000), but the drawback is noise is usually measured from the neazest public access (sidewalk, alley, etc.) which may not work for this azea because of the topography. Measurements from private property have not held up in court because of issues in apartment buildings, etc. Mayor Maxwell asked about Hopkins' definition of recreational vehicle. Mr. Getschow said he was not sure, but it would be in the city code. Mayor Maxwell noted Plymouth has a definition in their time limits. Mr. Brausen said time limits don't mean much when a noise is by one's window, especially in the summer; he can't imagine building a dirt bike trail on a residential lot. Ms. Johnson asked if a very lazge lot size could be used as a limitation; Mr. Getschow said that would involve option 1. Mr. Thompson noted BelAir has some 5-acre lots. Mayor Maxwell asked if age could be a factor. Chief Reid said there is no age limit on private property. For example, a 12-year-old can drive a golf cart on the course, but it would be illegal as soon as he enters a parking lot as that is a public access azea. Mr. Rowan asked if noise was the major concern and was told it is. Ms. Johnson noted a further issue would be deterioration of the neighborhood, sale prices of homes could be lessened by the dirt bike trail's presence. Mr. Thompson said the nuisance ordinance seems the best route as it says "threatens the public peace...or which is offensive.." but he hates to spend money for a decibel meter. He also wonders about going beyond "recreational vehicle" as some street vehicles like motorcycles could become a similaz issue. He later added he has problems with telling people what they can or cannot do with their property; eliminate the noise and there is no need for the track. Mr. Rowan suggested "recreational vehicle" could be defined as "any vehicle being used recreationally." Mr. Brausen added using an ATV for plowing a driveway would be legal Mazch 29, 2005 Page 2 then. Chief Reid suggested incorporating driving on an unimproved portion of the property. - Mayor Maxwell asked if those on the streets, especially in the summer, aze licensed. Chief Reid said most aze. Some ride pocket bikes or motorized skateboazds, which aren't; but that is not an enforcement problem. Here the enforcement problem is it is on private property. He added he has authority from the state to issue licenses for special cases, such as one he issued to a Dow Tower resident so he could get groceries. The city could also impose limitations to manufacturers' specs, which are usually quieter, but that raises inspection problems as it would involve another level of training. Mayor Maxwell felt the city attomey should look at definitions as he does not see how the nuisance ordinance or lot size could work; he suggested looking at Plymouth's definitions. Mr. Rowan said defining by use rather than noise seemed wise. Ms. Johnson suggested having the attomey also check if zoning changes could be made to prohibit dirt bike trails. Mayor Maxwell asked Ms. Donaldson if she had talked to the neighbor. She said she had not, but has talked to 5 other neighbors, who are also upset. Mr. Brausen felt the neighbor should be notified, the sooner the better; Ms. Johnson agreed he should know a complaint has been lodged. Mr. Rowan felt the city needs something to cite before notification. Mayor Maxwell noted the public notice process for ordinance change, etc. would be notification. Chief Reid said he could go and "test the waters." In response to Ms. Donaldson's concerns regazding this and other potential code violations, Reid noted that calls to police do put it on record, but added police records aze part of the public record. Mayor Maxwell noted calls to the inspection department aze not. General Consensus was that city staff should pursue a new ordinance prohibiting the use of recreational vehicles (not yet fully defined) on private property. The City Attorney will be involved in this process. Council Tour of Police Department Police Chief Reid led the Council throughout the department so they could see the Phase III completion. Skatepark Agreement Facilities Manager Jay Strachota said 3Td Lair has changed their minds on the agreement. They now want Hopkins to invest $10,000 per year for each yeaz of the 5- yeaz contract. This leaves Hopkins with 4 options: 1) Agree to 3`d Lair's new proposal; 2) Sell the equipment and purchase Tier I equipment; 3) Operate the park with city staff; 4) Sell the equipment and not rebuild a skatepazk. He said a second issue he wants direction on is that in the past the Skatepazk has been looked at on a yeaz-by-yeaz basis. The Jaycees had committed to $98,000 for equipment and $30,000 for grading, blacktop, etc. They did pay the first part, but have been unable to pay the $30,000. As a result, there is a negative cash of $22,000 in the Skatepazk account. Part of the problem is that the first yeaz was very profitable -- $56,000 - so it was decided to use their income for half of Taber's salary, which started the negative cash flow. Later that change was lowered to $5,000. Finance Director Hazkess noted Jaycee's first commitment was totally paid; the second was not as circumstances Mazch 29, 2005 Page 3 changed for the Jaycees -the laws changed and some of their events made no money because of bad weather. It could be absorbed from the Pazk Dedication Fund to the Skatepazk Fund. Mayor Maxwell asked if a letter had been sent to the Jaycees. Mr. Strachota said he had talked to them and they do not see how they can do it. Ms. Johnson suggested sending a letter and see if they could perhaps pay a little each yeaz. Mayor Maxwell added it should be clear Hopkins is not demanding the money. Mr. Stadler added if Hopkins wants to continue the Tier II level, it could be mentioned some payments would make that possible. Later Mr. Strachota noted when he talked to the Jaycees, they said they would like to see the Skatepark continue; but if the city cannot afford it, they would not object to closing it. Later Ms. Hazkess said the Skatepazk could be placed in the general fund, as opposed to continuing as a special revenue fund, since it may not have a revenue component. Hopkins could still chazge admission fees. General discussion followed on the $10,000 per yeaz request from 3rd Lair. Mr. Strachota said this amount would be strictly for materials, which would be paid for on receipts shown; 3`d Lair would supply the labor and the equipment would belong to Hopkins. Mayor Maxwell asked about selling the present equipment. Mr. Strachota said those he talked to had never seen it on the mazket but seemed to think Hopkins would get about $50,000 or enough for Tier I equipment. Council members noted this would mean the Skatepazk would need to be moved. Mr. Strachota added there aze only 4 Tier II pazks in the metro azea: Roseville Oval, Maple Grove; a partnership by Southdale Y, Richfield & Edina, while everyone has Tier I. He noted 3rd Lair had a warehouse location on Franklin three years ago, and now has a good indoor location in Golden Valley. He feels and Lair can network, while city staff doesn't have the connections to promote the Skatepazk so costs aze more. Staff could only keep it open week-ends in May, 6 days a week in the summer, week-ends in September; he later noted besides staff time there it would also involve administrative staff time. 3rd Lair would have it open much more - 7 days over spring break, week-ends during school, long days all summer as they would also run programs, lessons and clinics. He noted last yeaz there were 2000 visits by 1200 individuals. Mr. Brausen asked if 3`d Lair would consider getting $10,000 the first yeaz and $5,000 a yeaz for the next fow. Mayor Maxwell agreed he could see the initial amount, but not for fow more yeazs. Bruce Rowan suggested asking them about revenue sharing at a certain threshold to help offset the money Hopkins puts in. Ms. Johnson asked about the `outs' each party would have. Mr. Strachota said on a one-yeaz contract almost anything could be used. On a 5-yeaz it would involve legal issues, safety issues, etc. Ms. Johnson said a chwch in Champlin has a skatepazk; could the city look into having a chwch, etc. run it. Mr. Strachota said inswance issues would raise problems. Mr. Stadler said if Hopkins wants a vibrant Tier II skatepazk, they need someone who knows what they are doing. Otherwise, we should go to a Tier I. Mr. Rowan agreed. Mr. Thompson said he would like to see 3rd Lair do it, but can't see a $10,000 per yeaz commitment for 5 years. Mayor Maxwell agreed that $10,000 was okay the first yeaz, but $3-5,000 after that would be his suggestion. Mr. Brausen suggested looking at other options, such as $2000 from the general fund, seeing if Minnetonka might help, asking for donations. Mayor Maxwell said going to all the clubs for small amounts might work and suggested putting an article in the March 29, 2005 Page 4 newsletter. Later he added perhaps the city could put $3,000 a year in the capital improvement fund. Mr. Strachota asked what the Council would choose if 3'~ Lair will not agree. Mayor Maxwell said he feels we have to keep the Skatepark open this yeaz, but could then phase it out. Mr. Rowan would choose to sell the equipment and go to Tier I although he would not object to keeping it open this yeaz. Mr. Thompson would want to close it this yeaz while options are looked at. Mayor Maxwell disagreed; and Mr. Strachota said if it is closed, it would have to be fenced or get the equipment out due to city liability. Mr. Rowan added he feels we cannot ask for donations when the pazk is run by someone for profit. Mr. Stadler noted if it goes to Tier I it would need to go to the Park Board. General Consensus was that the Council wants to keep the Skatepazk open if possible. They instructed Mr. Strachota to see if 3Td Lair would consider aone-yeaz agreement with the city putting in $10,000 of improvements. Also, he could explore what the 3'a Lair would request in years 2-5 that would be less than $10,000 with a revenue share component. They also want a detailed list of what the $10,000 would get each yeaz of their 5-year plan. He should also check out what the equipment could be sold for. Opinion was divided if an agreement cannot be reached with 3`d Lair. Sewer Backup Insurance Financial Director Harkess said the cities in the metro area with this insurance aze West St. Paul, New Brighton and Coon Rapids. She talked to them, and all said the main reason they got it was for PR, although it was added to utility bills. Hastings had it and dropped it as it was not cost-effective as they did not charge residents. She noted it pays $10,000 "per incident" -but if 10 homes were affected, it would still be one incident. Cost to residents would be under 20 cents per month, but the rate is built on the total city premium; if it goes up so would this. Also we would need to meet the underwriters' provisions, the biggest thing would be writing a manual. It covers only city-owned lines, not the homeowner's line. She does not feel it is "a big bang for the buck." Mr. Getschow noted the last incident before the recent one was in 2003. He noted if the homeowner has insurance, that insurance takes precedence and he might get nothing from this insurance. Mr. Rowan felt it was worthwhile for under 20 cents a month. Mr. Brausen felt people would not understand and would cancel their own insurance and then blame the city. Mr. Thompson agreed. Mr. Stadler asked if it would be a possibility to not chazge residents so they wouldn't cancel insurance. General Consensus was to wait for more information and to allow Council members to talk to insurance people. Utilities Supt. Lauseng should check out what would need to be done. Something should be put in the newsletter suggesting that city residents obtain their own sewer-back-up insurance through their agent. Other Mr. Stadler said there were 2 good meetings on Shady Oak Road, with lots of good input. Ms. Johnson wanted to express thanks to all who put together the State of the City. She heard comments from attendees they liked it in the afternoon as they could mingle more. Mr. Brausen added he thought Mr. Getschow had given them a good process. March 29, 2005 Page 5 Mr. Thompson asked how Halley Homes acquired school property without a public bidding process. Mr. Getschow will get information and if any contact has been made with the city about zoning. Mr. Thompson would like to keep being updated on the eminent domain issue. He also emphasized page 5 of the update on city officials contacting local legislators on the MFHA housing grants, funding for state Challenge and Economic Development Housing Grant Program. Mr. Getschow said the material on Block 64 is not complete as they have not submitted everything. He will let the Council know by Friday whether a work session on this issue will occur on Tuesday, Apri15. Mayor Maxwell passed azound a letter from someone who got medical emergency help praising city response. He also mentioned the regional council for transportation. Mr. Getschow mentioned a Boy Scout sent a letter asking about Burger King closing. He asked for confirmation that Council did not want to sign resolutions for the Minnesota Smoke Free Coalition and the Gay-Lesbian Proclamation. Council agreed. He mentioned the Bridging the Water Gap Conference on April 15 to which Mayor Maxwell will take a resolution. The State of the County address will be April 1. Mayor Maxwell asked for input on his meeting with county officials Wednesday. Light rail and Shady Oak were suggested. Ms. Johnson moved adjournment. Mr. Brausen seconded. On a 5-0 vote the meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m. Kasey Kester, Secretary ATTEST: ~~ Eugene Jr axwell, Mayor COUNCIL MEMBERS: