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02-26-1963 A regular meeting of the Zoning and Planning Co���ission �f the City of Hopkins, Minnesota was held on Tu�sday, Februxary 26th, 1963, at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Cham�ers �f the City Hall. Present were Chairman Sundby, Mayor Milbert, Councilman Else, Stannard and Malecna, the � City Manager,Brubacher, Tne City Enjineer, Strojan, Tize City Building Inspector, Blomquist and the City Plann�r, Hawks. C�.se No. 63-1-V. Applicant: Ralph Souba Subject: Hearing published January 17th, 1903, on a request for the construction of a proposed sin�le residence on a 40 ft. wide lot in the 200 Blo�k on 18th Ave. North, Lot 25, Block 8, Wzst Minneapolis 3rd Division, Request: Th� issuance of a building permit. The Council have returned tnis request to the Zonin,�, and Planning Conunission for additional study. Action: M.r. Else move3 and Mr. Malecha seconded th� motion that the Buildin� Inspector, Mr. Blo:nquist,ord��r a hearing for a variance of from ��ight to sevan feet side yards for both sides of the proposed 3;aelling; said hearin� to be held at the Marcn 26th, 1903 Zoning and Plannin� Co:iunission neeting at 7:30 p.m. in tne City Council Chambers. The motion carrie3. Case i�o. 63-2-V. Applicant: Doa Revier Subject: Hearing published January 17th, 1963, on a reqaest for the co�struction Qf a propose3 single residence on a 40 ft. wide lot in the 200 Block on 18th Ave. ,� North, Lot 24, Block 8, Wast Minneapolis 3rd. Division. Request: The issu�.n�e of a buildin� permit. The Council have returned t?�is request to the Z�ning and Planning Comnission for a3ditional study. Action: M.r. Else •.nove3 and �I:r. Malecha seconded the �notion that the Buildin;; Insp�ctor, Mr. Blo�.nquist, order a hearing for a variance of from ��ight to seven fe2t side yards for both sides of the proposed d�aelling; said hearing to be lzeld at the March 26th, 1963 Zoning an3 Planning Co�mmission meating at 7:30 p.m, in the City Council Cha�nbers. The motion carried. Case No. 63-7-Z & S.U.P. Applicatn: L. J. Mason Su�ject: For discussion an application for a Sp�cial Use Permit for a �asoline filling station and adjust the co:mnercial zonin; to a point 177 feet Soath of the So�ath line of Excelsior Avenue or all of that part of Lot nu:n'�er Seventy-Seven (77) , Au3itor�s Sub-division '�u�n��er 239, Henn�pin County, Min.zes�ta, describ�3 as follows: Co�n,nencing at a point in the ce�zter line of Excelsior Boulevard Thirty and One Hundredths (30.01) fe2t West, measured along the center line from the point of intersection of said center lin� with the East line of Lot S�v�nty-Sevan (77) , extended; thence South along a line parallel with and distant Thirty (3�) feet West of the East line of said Lot S�venty-Seven (77) , ^ a 3istance of On: Hundred Twenty-Seven (127) feet; thence West alon� a line parallel with the South line of said Lot S��enty-Seven (77) a dista_nce of Oae Hun.dred (10a�) feet to the point of beoinnin� of the tract to be sescribe�.; thence North along a line parallel with the East line of said Lot Seventy- Seven (77) to the North line of said Lot Seventy-Sev�n (77) ; thence Westerly alon� tne North line of Lot Seventy-Seven (77) to the Northwest corner tnereof; thence South along the West line of said Lot to a �oint Forty-Five (45) feet North of the S�uthwest corn��r of said Lot; thence East parallel with tne South line of said Lot O:ze Hu�dre3 Thirty-Thre2 (1331 fe�t; tnence Nort:� paratlel with -said West lin� of said Lot to tne intersection �aith a lin� drawn frum the actual point of beginning parallel with the South lin� of said Lot; thence East in a straight line to the actual point of beoinning, subject to rights acq�aire3 by City of Hopkins for street purposes in D�c. No. 529320, Files of Registrar of Titles. Request: A sp�cial use pQrmit and an adjustm��nt of side yards. Action: Mr. Maleche �noved and Mr. Else seconded the motion that the plans for the pxoposed gasoline station be/to the Hennepin County Highway D�partm��nt. The :notion carried. sznt Case No. 63-8-Z; Adjustment; an3 Sub-division. .1 Applicant: Douglas Arn3t Subject: For discussion; an application for prup�se3 construction of multiple d;aellings; approv� new subdivision; grant adjustm��nt on lot width of proposed Lots 2 and 6 on that part of L�t 7 Auditors Sub�iivision No. 242, Hennepin Co�a_nty, except for propose3 Lot 4. Requ�st: Rezone from In3ustrial to Maltiple D;aellin�; approve n��a Su�-division; an3 grant a djustm�nt of lot widths of prop�sed Lots 2 and 6. The February 26th, 19b3 Zo�ing and Planning Co�nission meeting minutes continued. Action: Mr. Malecha move3 and Mr. Stannard saconde3 the :motion that a hearing on rez�ning from In3ustrial to ��2 that part of Lot 7, AuditorTs Subdivisio.z ^ �umber 242, Hennepin County, Minnesota described as beginning at the South- west corner of said Lot 7; thence North alonj tne West line of said Lot 191.52 feet; thence East at right angles 131.53 feet; then�e Southeasterly, deflecting to the right 66 deorees and 35 minutes from tne prolongation of the last above described course, to the interse�tion with tne Soutnerly line of said Lot; thence Westerly along said Southerly line to the point of beginning; and from Industrial to Multiple dwelling the balance of that part of Lot 7, Auditors Subdivision jk242, Hennepin County, Minnes�ta; said hearing to take place at tne March 26th, 19b3, Zoning and Planning Co��nission �e2ting at 7:30 p.m. o�clock in the City C�uncil Cham�ers. The motion carried, Case No. 63-10-Street name.s. Applicant: The Z�ning and Planning Co�nission Su'�ject: Tne naming of the followin� streets. Request: Presently dedicate3 street (1) along the West side of the Great Northern Spur line between 2nd. Street North t� Farmdale Road. No nam�� suggested. (2) The street betwe2n 7tn and 8th Avenues North fro:� Min�etonka Mills Road to State Highway No. 7. The followin� names have been suggested with �;:e na�nes %� favore3. --� Ge�nsemane Road%� Church School Road Churcn Place Re��elation Road Heavens Highway Trinity Lane Luther Lan�%Y (3) Future streets. (a) The East-West Street near the North end of Monroe Avenue North from M�nroe Avenue to a point approximately 300 feet East. Suggested names Monroe Place an3 Alpine Way. (b) Tne East-West Street approximately 400 feet North of Highway �k7 fro:n Robinwoo3 Lan� to County Roa3 ��73. No nam� suggested. Action: No action ;aas taken on street (1) ; the Co:mnission feels that until County Road �k18 is difinitely routed this streat should re_n�in un-named. � Mr. Malecha move3 an3 Mr. Else seconded the :notion tnat the street between 7th and 8th Avenues North from Minn�tonka '�Iills Road to State Highway �k7 be officially named Getnse.nane Road. Tne motion carrie3. Mr. Else move3 and Mr. Stannard seconded the mc�tion that the future East- West Street near the North end of Monroe Avenue North from Monro� Avenue to a point approximately 300 feet east be named M�:�roe Place. The motion carried. Mr. Malecha moved and Mr. Else seconded the motion that the future East- West Street approximately 400 feet North of Highway ��7 from Robinaood La:ne to County Road ��73 be 6th Stre�t extended, therefore this stre2t be :�amad 5th Street North. The motion carried. Case No. 63-12- Adjuatments and refun3s. Applicant: The �ity Council Subject: Re•aiew the cocmnunication _�f the City Manager, Mr. Brubacner, and the City Building Inspector, Mr. Blo:nquist with the intent to suggest m?thods of spelling out in detail the p.resent methods of handling adjustments and bsilding p�rmits and suggeste3 im;�rov�ments. Request: Discussion. .-� Action: No action was taken; however, it was suggested that the Building Inspector, Mr. Blo:nquist, make a stu3y of the Ordinances and submit to the Co:rnnission his reco:rnnendations for t�e len�th of time a building permit is valid; the ns-n��er of times said permit may be re-newed if at all; the fees for sucn re-neaals; and th� fees to be charged for adjustment requests. The February 26th, 1963 Zoning and Plannin� C�:�nission meeting minutes continu�d. No a3ditional formal busin�ss appearing, tne Co�nission adjourned. � Mr. C. R. Peterson, Secretary of the Cozunission Mh�'�IBERS: ' ATTEST: �.. Howard G. Sundby, Chairman of the Zonin� and Planning Com,nission ^ .-. G : The February 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning Commission meeting minutes. A regular meeting of the Zoning and Planning Conunission was held in the Council Hall of the City on February 26th, 1963 at 7:30 p.m. '^ Present were Chairman Sundby, Mayor Milbert, Councilman Else and members Stannard and Malecha and the City Manager, Mr. Brubacher, the City Engineer, Strojan, the City Building Inspector, Blomquist and the City Planner, Hawks; Case No. 63-1-V. Applicatn: Ralp� Souba Subject: He�ring published January 17th, 1963 on a request for the construction of a proposed single residence on a 40 ft, wide lot in the 200 Block on 18th Avenue North, or Lot 25, Block 8, West Minneapolis 3rd, Division. Request: The issuance of a building psrmit. The Council have returne3 this request to the Zoning and Planning for further study: ��yor Milbert: "It seems the feeling of a couple men on the Council that this should .-. be looked at again; again because it was not clear just where it was." "At the South there is a sort of basement house; to the North there is a little house." "There are some 40 foot lots acruss the street." "The area is such that anything being done in this area would be appreciated." "It would be an improve�nent." "In talking to the fello� to the South he felt that any construction that could be put up �ould be an improve;nent." (N1�yor Milbert passed pictures of the area aroun3 for the me�nbers to see) "No one will want to put in a house value3 at �18,000." "rhe house on the North was appraised at $5,000. ; I tried to buy some footage and both the wife and tne husband said what amounted to no." "The �aife said no she would not sell '� any of their p.roperty for any amount and the husband said that he �ould take $10,000, for it." "The house an the South as you can see is not much.-','. not "You can/give the fellow much credit for the house on this lot." "The house should be taken do.an." "If Don and Souba could go in and build two houses on these lots it would be an improvement." "As far as a double goes, the land costs to much for that sort of a building." Mr. Sundby: "�e ask at the last meeting to se if this or these lots could be made into 50 foot lots by getting more footage." "�ith the Building Ordinan�e we have �e -�ould have to provide a hardship case as ite:ns S. , 6. , 7. , and 8.; the following is wnat Mr. Hawks prepared and what Mr. Sundby is .-. referring to 5. As I understand, the council`s concern was tthe general level of develop- m�nt of the area wlzich is quite �odest. Would a double family unit or two single family houses be b�tter for the area. 6. The two houses if erected on a 40 foot lot in accordance with the -1- Tne February 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning �o��nission ne�ting minutes continued. Duuble Residential Districts would have a maximu� width of 24 feet and depth of 68 feet or 1532 squ�re feet. The permitted square foot- � age is more than sufficient. The existing houses in the area are _nore nearly 800 to 900 square fe2t. ParKing would have to b� acco�no3ate3 fro� the alley. The side yard would be 8 feet. 7. The question and difficulty of the request is the ordinance an3 wlzether the ordinance reflects the standards of development Hopkins desires. The standards for the Double Reside�_ztial District is a 6000 square foot lot with 60 feet of frontage with a built-in variance for those lots in existance �pon the effective date if the Ordinance permits 50 feet of width and again under Section 17 the privileoe of granting a special permit on any lot separately o;,me, 8. Tne question of amending the Ordinance arose sometime back and was .-. turned do�n. Under the present ordinance the request d��es not appear to have _narit." "i�e have the Ordinance itself in question." "If the prop�se houses would have a good effect or not is the question also." "No;a we come up with how to get 50 feet." "In order to do this is the Ordinance reasonable or is it not?" "Off hand are there any more lots like this in this blo�k;" Mr. Ha�aks: "Not in this area." "Tne wnole area is 40 foot wide lots." "We have granted two others down the street." "It was these ons that cause us to recomnend to the City Attorney the the Ordinan�e be chan;e3." Nlayor Milbert: "And the City Attorney said to just take them as they come in." "' Mr. Hawks: "This Meyers fello;a has some plans to build or finish his house; it would appear that he is not going to be �.ble to make it." Mayor Milbert: "I e��en called Mr. Meyers an3 ask him to sell a few feet." "He said he didn't feel he wanted to." Mr. Hawks: "Do Mr. Souba �nd Mr. Re�vier intend to build inside the side yard regulations?" Ma.yor Milbert: "If they did they would have to stay within �a� 24 foot wide house." "D�n has a 26 foot wide house that he is building in Edina ." Mr. Sundby: "How deep is that house Don?" Mr. Revier: "It is 26'x45� ." Mr. Revier sho;as his house plans. Mr. Re�vier: "If I had to built it with 8� side yards I could take a couple fe�t off .--. of the house but I would hate to do so." "It wouldn't cause any hann." Mr. Su:ndby: "You do feel that this house could be cut do�an if that is the problem?" Mr. Revier: "Yes, but I would hate to." Mr. Hawks: "Yoa are p�rmitte3 to have 3U% coverage." "Some of these houses have 12" Mr. Revier: "I would sure hate to cut that house do�rn." -2- The February 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning Conunission meeting minutes continued. Mr. Sundby: "If you did not cut the house down that would give you a seven foot side yard." "It looks like there is more that eight feet to the house to � to North of him and I think there is ten feet between them on the South." Ma.yor Milbert: "On the North side there is twenty-five feet." Mayor Milbert: "In looking at the area it is not worth a good home." Mr. Else moved and Mr. Malecha seconded the motion that the Buildin� Insp�ctor, Mr. Blo:nquist order a hearing for the variance of one foot and the i�earinJ will be at the Ma.rch 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning Cornnission meeting. Tne motion carried. Mr. Sundby: "Both Case No. 63-1-V and 63-�--V are the same so we will consider the above �nation to apply to both cases." Mr. Sundby: C�se No. 63-7-Z & SP. Applicant L. J. Mason Subject: For discussion; an application for a Special Use p�rmit for a .. gasoline filling station and adjust the connnercial zoning to a point 177 feet South of the South line of Excelsior Avenue or all that part of Lot nu:nber Seventy-Severn (77) , Auditor's Sub-division Nu-nber 239, Hennepin County, Nl�nnesota, described as follows: Cocrunencing at a point in the center line of Excelsior Boulevard Thirty and One hundredths (30.01) feet West, measured along the center line from the paint of intersection of said center line with the East line of Lot Seventy-Se�vern (77) , extended; thence South alo�ng a line p�.rallel with and distant Thirty (30) feet West of the East line of said Lot Seventy-Severn (77) , a distance of One Hundred Twenty-Se�ven (127) feet; thence West along a line parallel with the South line of said Lot � Seventy-Seven (77) a distance of One Hundred (100) feet to the point of be- ��nning of the tract to be described; thence North along a line parallel with the East line of said Lot Seventy-Seven (77) to tne North line of said lot Seventy-Seven (77); thence Westerly along the North line of Lot Seventy- Seven (77) to the Northwest corner thereof; thence South along the West line of said Lot to a point Forty-Five (45) feet North of the Southwest corner of said Lot; thence East parallel with the South line of said Lot One Hundred Thirty-Three (133) fe�t; thence North parallel with said West line of said Lot to the intersection with a line drawn from the actual point of beoinning parallel with the South line of ssid 7�ot; thence East in a straight line to the actual point of beginning, subject to rights acquired by the City of .-. Hopkins for street purposes in Doc. No. 529320, Files of Registrar of Titles. Re�uest: A special use p��r*nit and an adjust:nent. Mr. Sundby: "Jim, do you want to s?�oa us this location?" Mr. Hawks does so. Mayor Milbert: This will take tT�e ,prnperty with house and the garage?" -3- The February 2bth, 1963 Zoning an3 Planning Co.�nission neeting minutes continund. Mr. Ha�ks: "Yes, it will take the house and the garage." "This plan has been sub:nitted to us and shows what they would like is for us to give it a good � looking at at this time and then they would kn�� wnat they would b�� faced Taith." "You know about our plans for County Road �k3." "It is a point as the County dozs not want to spend any money; and with Monk Avenue getting lights we should take steps to straighten Monk Avenue out at this time." Mr. Else: "Hoa much will it take to straighten out Monk? ; can they still have roo:n to build?" Mr. Hawks: "Yes, but we are ,aorking with two County roads and we should suggest to the County the above plans and see w.zat the �ounty wants to d��." Mr. Brubacher: "You know �hat that means, it means that it will come back to us." M�.yor Milbert: "Dick, waht did Barton`s say about this corner?" Mr. Brubacher: "They did not agree with the thoughts of the County." "They would ^ have the road further doan to;an." Mr. Else: "Do all of the adjustments have to co:ne on one side?" Mr. Hawks: There is a Shell station there now an3 the Resturant across the street from Shells station." "It is possible we could take a few feet off of th,�.t side." Mr. Blo:nq�s�':: "''�Te would not want to go South anyway it is North Excelsior tt�at will have to b�� cnan�ed." i�Ir. Hawks: "As far as space is concerned there is plenty for the plans." Mr. Else: "What are they going to do with that?(pointing at an open area)" Mr. Haw'�.s: "Th�y said they would be using it for parking." �-., Mr. Else: "What are they goin� to do with the back?" Mr. Hawks: "'rhere should be a fence in there." "There is enough space that it could be designed in there all right." "There will be the adjustments on the �urb cuts etc." NL�yor yIilbert: "Does 9tan3ard aant to move their stafion on 8th do-,�m there?" Mr. Hawks: "They want to move one but it is the one on 18th, or anyway they said they would be moving one of their station onto the n�w lo�ation." "The station on 18th is har� to get into." M,�.yon ylilbert: There was a use3 car lot there and it was so��d to Lucky Marine." Mr. Brubacher: "To�anse3ge cars are parking on it now." Mayor Milbert: "This snould be referred to the County as it will have to do ;aith ;ahat ^ the County do�s with that road," Mr. Hawks: "They �aill have from 18 to 20 thousand cars by there a day, ev2n more." Mr. Su:n3by: "Do I have a motion?" Mr. Male�ha move3 .and Mr. Else seconded the motion that the plans for the proposed -4- Tne February 26th, 19�3, Zoning and Planning Co�mnission naetin� minutes contina2d. gasoline station be sub�nitted to the County. The motion carried, Mr. Ha��ks: "Should we notify the Coanty; they will do what ever it is necessary to find out about the plans;" M-r. Sundby: Case No. 63-8-Z. Applicant: Douglas Arndt Subject: For discussion; an application for propose3 construction of multiple d��ellin�s; appro�e new sub-division; grant adjustme:nt lot widths of proposed Lots 2 an3 6 on that p�rt of Lot 7 Auditors Su�division No. 242, Hennepin County except proposed Lot 4." Request: Rezone fro_� In3ustrial to �ultiple D�aelling; ap�rove ne� Sub- division; grant adjustment of lot width of proposed Lots 2 and 6. Mr. Arn3t: "This is the plan." � Mr. Ha�ks: "This is property zone3 Ind�astrial and ��ae would have to chan�e the zon�." "It is designn3 a little over the amount of space, but not very �ucn." "The parking is a little more than one space per unit as it is proposed." "But the question is that we s'zould determine if this area should be re-zun�d." 5th .AveLzu�� �aill becom� a part of the .-najor Stre2t syste�n r,�ith five to six the tnousand cars p�r day." "The development in and near/To;anse3ge is good." Th� buildings would face o�n Industrial zoning." "I would like to turn to my findin;s. 1. The site in question is zone "I" In3ustrial as is the land across the county road and to the East. The land across Fifth Avenue is N1g; Multiple Residential zone, .-� 2. Residential uses are not permitte3 within the "I" District. Thus the question to be answere3 is wliether Fifth Avenue is the proper line bp- t�,�een the I and MR District or should it be �nove3 to thn East. 3. Fifth Avenue is plann�d as a major thoroughfare and the crossing of the railroad h�s be2n approved by the Warehouse Co�rnnission. 4. The de�velop-nent of a high density residential area adjacent to the town center is a recognized goal and the acco�plish-nent of this goal is in process. 5. Assw�ning the high dzsnity developnent is successful it would mean that the apartme:zt along Fifth would face industrial d�velop�nent. This would not be as co:npatible as h.�.vin� the apartment's back onto an in3ustrial area. 6. As a counter consideration the City must maintain its influence to;aard utilizing tl�.e p��tential tax supporting land in the best manner. Lan3 for co:mnercial and Industrial use must have access. Land which has rail access, County Road access, m�.jor thoroughfare access and good visu.al access has a co:rnnercial value above the typical site. Tnis 3.3 acre .--. site is the o:zly such site along County Road 3, in fact it is the �nly site in Hop'_cins ��aith such access facilities. 7. Considering the long range future of Hopkins develop-nent, it appears that provisions to develop the site as zoned would be more baneficial than to utilize t.�e site for residen�es. 8. Sh�uld the d�cision be to change the zo�ze, it is requeste3 that the hearing be table3 until the �1a.rch meeting to permit review of propose3 plat an3 apsrtm�nt design. -5- Tne February 26th, 1963, Zoning and Planning Co��ission �eeting minutes continu�3. Mr. Strojan: (Point to a :nap)"This here _�ay'oe.�' "But County Road l�3 :n,�.s on�� other site, tn.at is the one by National Tea." " Su:zd'�y: "This is the only site North of County Road �k3?" M.r. Ha�a'�s: "This is No.rth of Cosnty road ��3 and is the only one you have today." "It is tne only ona left for In3ustrial," "i�e have to dra�a �he lin� so,ne- place." "It could be �noved 2 block this way here or 2 block the other way." "The rest of the land we nave that is Induatrial is off do;an here."( Pointing to map) . "I tnink that this is ou.r con�ern," Mr. Sun3by: "Fro:n tne ;nultiple over all plan 3oes it fit into ou.r over all plan to situ,�.te ap��.rtments within walking 3istance of docan, town?" Mr. Hawks: "Yes, but there is quite a grade differea�e." Mx. Hagen: "We are sellin� these tracts to :�Ir. Arn3t." "Mrs. Sala says that Hop�{ins �. is gettinj to lon� o:~� In3ustrial a.nd not e�zougn residential." "Anoth�r tning it �ould be s way to square off �he z�ning and keep it off the In3ustrial." Mr. Ha:mnerlund p�.�t in a metal s?�op and got into this same proble�n." "Hopkins doea not have a rig'nt In3ustrail area does it." ��Ir. Sundby: "In all fairness this is a reconnnz�nded plan an3 a good building." iKr. Hawks: "It is safe to say that h�wever build this area u� tne fello�a will be successful." "It is built between two railroad trac?cs; a .najor throughfare that is going to have ;nore and more traffic." I do nQt think it is any thing that it is - - - - - - ." "But it is the o�zly site or piece that is left for In3ustrial parposes." "I tnink we out to consider this from what it meant to the Industrial area and wlzat it meand fro:n being a propose3 ,-. � place left." Mr. Hagen: "One �ther thin� t:�e only way you can getting more '_zousin� is to get ho�as�ing by apartments. "i�aen you get tTao 50 fo�t lots �ahicn cost you $10,000 par lot, you are not going to be able to �iave pe�ple putting up apartment buildings on the;n." "This u�it we are puting up in St. Louis Park was sold for $1500, per u:zit." "In Ho�'�.ins you ��ill have to pay $3J00, and you cannot do it." "i�oa just can_�ot buy it and then think you can come out on it." "You cannot build high return buildings, so you can- not justify the fancy bsildin�s." "The future of apartment buildino in this town is just about finished; this is the last spot where you can —, p�st a group together near the up-to:�m area." Mr. Else: "Waht rental are you going to rent them for?'' Mr. Arndt: "The re:�ts will be from $125 to $130 per month." Mr. Hage�z: "Our other buildin�s re:zt for or I should say to $150.00n iKr. Brubacher: "Wh,st about over-flow parkin;?" Mr. Arndt: "There are 9� uzits and parking space for 105 cars. -6- The Fe�ruary 26th, 1963, Zoning and Planning Co:mnission meeting minutes continued. Mr. Brubacher: "The thing we are face3 with is that sonething as �e :zave at Elmo Park and this d�es not have �lans for additional parking." ^ Mr. Hagen: "rhis provides for more parking than units." "We have 95 units an3 119 parking space�." "I d�� not see any reason for making the lost the s.�.me whe:n tnis worics ��ut b�tter o�ver all." "There is a possiblity of a s�ai?mning pool and play yard." "It depen3s on �r:zo ;aill buy it." "These are teiZtative plans." Mr. Sundby: "If you are going to :nove the zoning I would suggest you pat it up to tnis :me2ting here." Jo�.n Strojan: "If y�u are ooin� to rezonz tnis area I would su�gest that you do these lots also." (John goes to map and points out the lots thatMr. I3onnellan ask to have rezone3 earlier.) Mr. Brubacher: "Wh.�.t would you gain by that?" "You •�aould have a row of Multplies ^ in '�ere an3 another Multiply here." The would face each other and not be a '�Iultiply facing an In3ustrial area." "Your parking wuuld go with these places here." Mr. Ha�en: "This would be a station." (meaning lot 4) "It =aould be forty foot from the lot line." ;Kr. Brubacher: "You guys propose to change lot four from Industrail then." Mr. Hage�n: "That was left off of the plans for Industrial." Mr. Hagen: "This plan as we have it leavas the lan3 for the street whe_n it comes througn." Mr. Brubacher: "That piece �f land has alr�ady 'oe2n given to the City." ^ iKr. Else: "There is no plan for recreations in the area." Mr. Brubacher: "And there is no gree�zery." Mr. Else "How do you get 15 units in there?" Mr. Ha�e�z: "They are built like the ones on 17th." "Two and one-half stories; one- hali down and two up." "This gives you 16 units." "We fin3 that 16 units work out better than the 12 units." Mr. Brai�acher: "�Ihat about the �aidth of County road �k3 and 5th Street Jo�n?" Mr. S.�rojan: "You can develope it with less room if you '.zave no parkin� on the streat; but with parkin� you aave to have 44' ." "To �ark on Coanty road �k3 ?:t gets up to 6`J feet." Mr. Su_zdby: "How ma.ny t�ao be3roo:ns do you plan D�ug?" .-. Mr. Arndt: "Eignt and Eig'.nt." Mr. Else: "But there is no grean lan3 h�re at all." Mr. Ha,.aks: "There is a plan ,roun3 �f 150 fe� that we ��aould have to �aive also." Mr. Else: "(lo��king at drive ways) It would be a p.roblem to get on an3 �ff the strezt -7- The February 26th, 19b3 Zoning and Planning Co�nnission neeting minutes continu�3. here also." ��,..a.�ror Milbert: ";�id we havz a prop�sal before us like this b�fore?" �.,. Mr. Hawks: "Yes, but we turned it down p�n�.ing th� ope�.ing of 5th." M��.yor i�Iilbert: "GTe straightene3 the line s�,n� �place up above?" Mr. Haw�.s: "This pie�e �f p.roperty is goo3 in here." Mr. Ha�en: "This piece of property has bez�-� on the m<�rket for a long long time." "It came up �gain and I thin?c you ;aill find that your Multiple ;aill get you mo.re taxes and oets a buildin; o:�. it." Mr. Else: "I would thin?{ you can get more baildin�s in there." Mr. Sundby: "Jim, you ask that the�� callin� of the hearing be pospose3 u�ltil March or just wlieLz did you want it?" Mr. Ha��aics: "You �annot have a hearing without the plans unless you �hange t�e z��ning." "I a;n cunrern��3 about t:�e 3esignin� and if w-a should �ave any apartm��nts .-. this close to the street." "This is quite close to the 3�wn-to,an area but there is less ro�:n than the La�p Liters." Mr. Hagen: "No, there is more roo:n here than. at the La.np Liters." Mr. Brubacher: "That is be�ause of this differe�z�e in back," Mr. HawlL;�: "These are bigger buildin�s th.�.n the Lamp Liters." "With this parkin; s�ace it is really tougn.." "So�ne of these places could work b ut in here the gre2�zery woald be so s:nall it would have t� be hand cut." (Pointin� to tne plans) "I tnink wlzat you are short of is about this much." "If you �pened up this area you Taould :�ave all the area that tne planning co,�nnission aould like." Mx. Bagen: "The paricing is ��ver th,� aAnount ask for by the old code." "rhis is 1.3". .-. Mx. HageLz: "If you are going to .zave a hearing on the zonin;; w?ien would it co.�ne up." "Do you '_zave to notify the p��ple?" Mr. Strojan: "It is the plat area that s:�.ould co:ne before th� rezoning :nearing." Mr. Hage_n: "Are they going to do anytning with the street?" Mr. Strojan: "Is .5th Stre�t scne3uled this year, Dick?" Mr. Brubacher: "Yes, it is." Ma�or Milbert: "D� �ou know no�a wide it is goin; to be?" Mr. Brubacher: Fro�n 6� to 70 fezt." Mr.Hawics: "It is :nore of oar major street plan." Mr. Hage�z: "This is under option, I do not kno;a w�zat the tim�� limit is." Mr. Arn3t: "I have about two .nonths." .-. iKa3�o.r Milbert: "What is the tatal invest;�ent Do�a,?" Mr. Hage�z: "A little un3er a .nillion." Mr. Strojan: "�ne thing you h�ve oot to do is this bat you have to do something with lot four as w�ll." -8- The Feuruary 28tn, 1903 Zo�ning and Planning Coznnission .-neeting :�ninutes co�inued. M.r. Hage:n: "i�z th.ougnt of a filling station." iKr. Hagesz: "�Te c.ould zon� lot fou.r C-�•2i" llr. Ha�aks: "It h�.s to be s�-nethin� but Industrial." �Kr. Ar�zdt: "I would ,aant to have it chan;e3". M.r. Brubacner: "You realize that Cou�ty ��18 is goin; to use the right-of-way:" "100 fezt of prop�rty is a lot of property." "It is going to be just like Hig:na,�.y ��7." Mr. Arndt: "i�Tnat is the starting date?" Mr. Brubacher: "They are telling us th�at they are going to get starte3 not to far in th� distanct future." "'Tne propose3 County ��3 is g�in� to b� �n th� South and the �ther two on the North." "Is this the way you see it John?" M.r. Strojan: "Yes, it is." M�.yor Milbert: "Are these all prim roads in you plot?" ^ Mr. Arn3t: "Financing is getting very nard again." Mr. Arn3t: "I d�� know if I was a merchant in Hop'_cins I would sure welco:ne the�e ad�3ition,al apartments co:ning in so vlose to the shopping area." Mr. Else: "I do not think Jim '_zas had a chan�e to revie;a this vexy well as yet." Mr. Stannard: "I would like to see Jim try to work this out to conform to the way we are working out our new down-town plan." Mr. Brubacher: "You should set you :zearing and then extend it or continue it if Jim 'zas not com,� to a conplete un3erstandin; of your plans as yet." Mr. Str_•ojan: Mr. Donnellan '�ad come in for a request to re-zon� these six lots ovur h��re." "0 3o not thin it was give.�. to him." � Mr. Blo:mquist: "Xes, it was denied," Mr. Storjan: I think we s'lould consider b��t� at the same time." Mr, Ha�e��.: "Is this something that we p?ople study at your oan m��etings;°' Mr. Su:n3�y: "Yes, t:�at is waht Dick says, w�a can th�n xe-study th�:n after t�e hearin�." Mr. Ha�aks: "We �ava to �onsider this and th�n ae nave to consider the ne�w sign �o:np.�.ny." Mr. Brub�cker: "They sneake3 in and they are n�t going to stay." M�.yor Milbext: "Jim, will this give �ou time to get your study in?" Mayar Mi3b��rt: "Before we can 3o anything else ,ae should get the information f�r the h�aring in hy this next Monday." Mr. Hag�n: "This is a petition for a hearing or re-zoning." "We will give you this, all the information ��n alI of the lots and -.nn lot 4 also." '� Mr. Else: "I n�tice Edian just ap�rove3 �`�Iultiple zoning ; I think we should get hold of their ordinance." "Can we get a copy do you think, Dick'?" Mayor Milbert: "Edina is programing a multiple in east of Pe�lersons." Mr. Male�ha moved and :Mr. Stann.�.rd se:,onde3 the _notion that a hearing on rezoning from In3ustrial to �Iultiple dwelling and fro:n Industrial to �-2 that part of Lot 7 -9- The Febru�ry 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning Co��nission nezting minutes continued. Auditors Subdivision No. 242, Henn�pin Coanty. Mr. SundUy: C.sse No. 63-10-Streats ^ Applicant: The Zoning and Planning Co:mnission Subject: The na�ing of the followin� streets Reqaest: Presently de3icate3 street (1) alonj tne West side of the Great Northern Sp�ir line between 2nd. St. North to Farmdale Road - - no name suggested. (2) The street between 7th and 8th Avenues North fron �innetonka Mills Ro.�d to State Highway No. 7 ---; the follo�aing names have been suggested with the %'� na,nes f�.vore3. Gethse:na.ne Road� Church School Road Church Place .-. Re�velation Road Heavens Highway Trinity Lane Luther Lane%� (3) Future streets: The East-West Street near the No.rth end �f Mo:Zroe Ave�zue flVorth from ylo:zroe Ave_�ue to a point approximately 300 feat Last. - - -Su�gested name; Monroe Place and Alphine �Tay. The East-West Street approximately 400 feet North of Highway ��7 from Robbinwood Lane to County Road ��73. ,� Mr. Male;:ha move3 and Mr. Else se�onde3 the motion that the na�n� of Gethse�nane Road be suggeste3 or reconnnended to the City Council for the strezt between 7th and 8th Ave_nues N8rth from Minnetonka Mills Ro.sd to State Highway No. 7; Mayor Milbert: Gethsenane Road mean som�thing to ever on�." Mr. Stannard: "�n the s?con3 one I feel Monro� Place is better; it means a given area to the Fire D�partment. "It is better than .Slphine �aay." M.r. Blo:nquist: "If Van Bu.ren is to be exten3ed it would be the other end of it." "Then why n,�.me it Monreo Place?" Ma.yor Milbert: "I kno;a that it is a possiblity, bat way give it that name?" Mr. Else: move3 and Mr. Stannard second�3 the _notion that the n,�.me Monroe Place be recocmnen3e3 to the City Council for the East-West Street near to the North end of � Mo:�roe avenue �Iorth from Monroe Avenu�� to a p�int approxi*n�.tely 300 feet East. Mr. Brubacher: "'�Ihat would this third one be John, 6th or 7th if it was extended?" Mr. Strojan: "It could be 6th Street." Mayor Milbert: "There is nothing facing it, 6th street would be good enou;;h." -10- The Febru,ary 2bt�, 1963 Zoning and Plannin� Co�nission meeting �.ninutes continu��d. Mr. Brub�cher:� "As far as the stre2t alon� the West side of th� Great Northern Spur line between 2nd. St. North to Farmdale Road we should leave that go; County _ Road 1� will b�� going do�n that strezt." Mayor Milbert: "It is a good thing to get the streets named; the Post Office pe�ple as well as the Fire Department can find th3 homes easier." Mr. Brubacher: "v7e foua��' a streat l�st year that we 3idn't know that we had." "The l�dy �alled an3 wante3 it plowe3." It was only twenty feet long, but it was a street and was named." Mr. Sundby: 63-12: This refers to Mr. Brubacher and Mr. Blomquist letters." "I tnink that we have all read them." Applicant: The �ity Council Case No. 63-12 Ajustments and refunds. Subject: Re�view the com,nunication of the City M.anager, Mr. Brubacher, and ^ the City Building Inspector, Mr. Blo:nquist with the intent to suggests methods of spe3.lin� out in detail the present methods of handling adjustments and building permit fees for future. Mr. Brubacher: February 19, 1963 The Honorable City Council City of Hopkins, Minnesota Attached here�aith is a letter from NIr. Blomquist, Hopkins Building Insp�ctor, explaining and clarifying a problem wLiich has arisen re- garding the length of time which may lapse between the issuance of a building per�nit or the granting of a variance and the actual con- struction of the structure. In addition to Mr. Blo:mquist's recom;n��ndations I would further . reconnnend that all baildinj p�rmits, or variances, or special use permits wizidh have presently been issued for over on2 year :..-. - _. and we know work has nat be2n starte3, be cancelle3. I further reco�nnend that in the case of Mr. Nichoy:n3, and other p�rmits similar to his , tn.at the �oancil establish a policy to refun3 the occupancy permit and one-half of the other fees involed. As a policy for future situations I would recom�end that where a year elapses on permit applications, variances or sp?cial use permits, that �nly the occupancy permit be refunded. Respectfully submitted. R. L. Brubacher City Manager. February 19, 1963 The Hornorable City Coun�il City of Hop'�.ins, Minnesota Gentlemen: ^ On Februsry 10, 1961, H�ward Nichodym _nade application to build a com�inercial building, 42' x 60' , on the South 80 feet of Lots 18 an�. 19, Block 16, West Minn�apolis 3rd. Div. This is an 80 foot by 80 foot tract on the N. E, corner of 18th and Excelsior Avenues. On De:.ember 5, 1961, the City Council granted the adjustment of front yard require�n�nts from 3J feet to 10 feet. The buildin� area anount to 39.3'/0 of the land area, just within the required 40%. -11- The February 26,1963 Zoning and Planning Co�nission meeting rninutes continued. A Building Pennit was issued on February 1, 1962, for a 60 ft. by 40 ft. 2 story structure, valued at $40,000. The Building Pennit fe2 �aas $41.00 and the O��cupancy Permit fez was $10.00. Ordinance ��63, Se:,. 11, Sub. 3, stipslates that "any building pennit shall be void six months after date of issue, unless ;aithin such period work is co.mnence3 on the improeements covered by the permit." On August 1, 1952, this permit was rene;ae3 for a period of six months and an additional Building Permit fee of $11.80 was charge3 to conform with the fee sche3ule of the Nea Building Code rate. Tizis building has not been started and as of February 1, 1963, this permit is void. 0.z •Ju:i.y 5, 1962, the City Council adopted the Uniform Buildin� Code. Section 302, (d) reads: "Every permit issued by the Building Official u�der the provisions of this Code shall expire by limitation and become null and void, if the building or work 3uthorized by such permit is not com,nence3 �ithin 60 days from the 3ate of such permit, or if the build- ing or work authorize3 by such p�rmit, is suspende3 or abandoned at an� tim� after the work is connnenced for a p�riod of 120 3ays. Before such wurk can be reconnnenced a new permit shall be first obtain�d so to do, and the fee therefore shall be one-half the a�ount required for a n��w p�rmit for sucn work, provided no chan;es have been m.�.de or will be �nade in the original plans and spe�ifications for such work; and p.rovide3, further, that such suspension or abandonment has �not excee3e3 one year. ^ There are no provisions provided in our ordinances for the refund of Building �ermit fees or Occupancy Fees. There is no refPren�e to the length of tim2 during which a Building Permit may 'oe issuad on the basis of either Adjustments to the Zoning Ordinance require�nents or to Special Use Permits granted. There are a nunber of cases where Adjustments were granted but no Building Permit issued. So,ne of these cases have no;a excee3e3 a year since the granting of the Ac��ustment. The same situation exists in regard to Special Use Permits. Another point to consider in the same field is the matter of charges for the han3ling of applications for Adjustments of the require;n�nts of the Zoning Ordinance. Ordinance No. 131, Sec, 15, Sub. 2-(b) -3-4-5 allo�as for adjustments and exceptions to the con3itions of the Zoning Ordix�anc� This process requires publication of notices of hearin;, th� minimu:n cost of which is $7.50. These requ��sts involve substantial clerical work, an appraisal of the request by, and a report fro:n the City Plann- in� Consultant. This type of hearin� and decision is co:nparable to the process involved in granting Special Use Permits on wnich a $25.00 charge is made, one-half of which is returnable if the request is refused. ^ From the foregoing information it sezms that there should be Coun�il consideration of the disposition �f Building Permits B26-7 and Bb2-139 a an3 the �ldjustment grante3 Howard Nichodym on Dece�n�er 5, 1961. Also an amendment to the Zoning Ordinance reflecting the desires of the Council as regards (1) refunding of Building Permit fees, (2) renewal of Building Permits and additional fees for such rene;aal, (3) tim�� limits of Adjustments and Special Use Permits, and (4) fees covering costs of handling applications for Adjustments to th� Zoning Ordin.ance. It is my recomm2ndation that the valid time limit of an .Adjustment of SpQcial Use Permit not be related to the e�piration of a Building Permit, because by not taking out the Buildin; Permit, the valid time of the Adjustment or Special Use Permit could be extended indefinitely. In a climate that sometimes forces winter conditions on the buildin� industry that oft-times nakes construction starts either very exp�nsive or nearly im�ossible, it see�ns that a perio3 of six m��nt�s instead of the two months validity pArio3 would lend itself to more practical application. The 120 day abando:nant clause an3 the on� year feature would see:n to make sense. ^ Possibly a one year limit on the validity of Adjustments to the Zoning requirements and Sp�cial Use Permits granted :aould be a reasonable time, after wnich such action should b�a re�onsidere3 by the Planning and Zon- ing Co,mnission an3 the City Council Respectfully submitte3, Clinton Blo:nquist Buildin� Inspector -12- Tne Febu�ry 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning Co:mnission meeting minutes continued. Mr. Brubacher: "It is not only �hat we do to the permit fezs but also as you �an see by Clints letter the time ele�n���.t." Mr. Blo.nquist: "We �ave to know just how lon� we can leave a Building permit and an adjustment valid." "The �ld building permit would be valid for six months , if no construction aas started it be�o:ne void." "If constru�tion was starte3 it of course becom� good or it did n�t expire." "The n�aw Code give them two months to start constructions after the issuing of th�� p�rmit." "This I think i not good for Minnes�ta." "The Coun�il gave NAP�O .�.nd Super Valu in '�oaember building p�rmits and said that they �id not need to start until Spring, and I think the Ordinan,�e should be ad_nanded to read six months rather than the two months; and it also says that if th� project is abandone3 for 120 days tney have to c�me in here and get anoth�r permit at 2 the fea costs; after one year they have to get another � p�rmit at full fee costs." "I think th�.t if you grant an adustmen.t it s�ould be tied to the building permit." Mr. Else: "It seems that there should be some re-ne;a�.l on the permit." �Kr. Hawks: "They s ;hould be able to apply for an extention." iKr. E1se: "Yes, or som�thing like that." Mr. Blomquist: "If you are going to provide exceptions you have to ctiange tne Ordinance. "In ��ur Ordin.�.nce ��e 3� not have provision for refun3s or extentions of time." 1K,ayor Milbert: "If Mr. Else says we should have some pxo�isions for exte�tions I think he _night be :naking a good point." Mr. Else: "It w��sld seen that some opto�.on should 5e left with t�e building adjustm�nt." "I do not se2 �.zy we should refuse3 on these things." ,,� �Kr. Blo:nquist: "Lots of tim2s these thing that com� in �LyL� do not get started at all." "There is a lot of work donn on the:n and the never get started." Mr. Else: "Wnen the co_ne for a building p�rmit they �aant to be sure that they really are going to get started." Mr. Blomquis =: "Eve�n tonig�.t we had some of this." "�Till these apartmvnt buildings ever get off the groun3." Mayar Milbert: "0_�. the re-newal fees Z of the fee szems �iight," Mr. Blomquist: "I am not talking about fees like $2500, which was Sup�r Valu." Mayor Milbert: "Ha�•�e Super Valu taken out their permit;" Mr, Brubacher: "From now on wtiien they come in for a hearing if they d� �zot �ave a checK they can not take out a permit." � Mr. Blo�nqtaist: "No, Sup�r Valu '.zave not taken out their. se;^ond permit." NL�.yor Milbert: "When they can 3elay buildino for two years, this becomes co�nfusing." Mr. Blo:nquist: Mr, Nickody,n says, look, if I had not taken out my permit when I did, I could come in here now and oet it and not have to pay e:xtra." -13- The February 26th, 19�53 'Loning and Planning Co�mnission meeting minutes contin�i�d. Mr. Strojan: "T1ney take the permits out for their own protection�." Mr. Else: "Maybe we should say that the ap�roval of th� adjustma:.i:s is goocl for a "-' period af thirty days " Mr Hawi<s:"What Clint is proposin; is that the building per�nits sizould be taken out when the adjustme�nts are �_nade." "NL�.yoe I should have said granted." Mr. Else: "I can see sone proble��ns in this tning, they may not want to build until next fa11." Maybe there should be an advance fea for advance help." Mr. Blo:nquist: "I have also ask for a fee for a Specical Use hearing." "With 2 the fee to be refunded if the request is refuse3." "Tne actural work is the same." "Mr. Hawks has to do the same work and we charge nothing." Mr. Brubacher: "An� we can't co:ne out at $25.00 in our checking we find that our minimum fe2 for the publishing is $7.50." � Mr. Blo�nquist: "Tne lo;aest fee was $7.50." Mr. Else: "I would go for a minimum fee of $25.00." Mr. Malecha: ""I would go for that too." "A lot of the.n are fishing and if there was a fee they would be less apt to take up your time." Mr. Sundby: "Wi�y don't you Clint, John and Jim oet togther and draw up what you feal that you nee3 and set up a fee basis and then bring it back to as?" Mr. Malecha; "I also tnink a Iimit should be put on the extentions." Mr. Blomquist: "If you leave the tim� limit to the Buildin;; Inspe�tor on adjustments, he might not know or see any change but the neighbor living next to ;anere s_;.-,e adjustm�nt was given night see on� and not want to go along with it at sone later date." � Mr. Brubacher: "I think if there is a complaint the n�ighbors should let tne Building Inspector know." Mr. Stannard: "Is there a fin.�.l cut off no�, if one year isn't it?" Mr. Blonquist: "Each extention is granted on the basis that seem �necessary at the time." "Not next month or in the next six months." "I would say for 30 days and not to exceed six months." Mr. Malecha: "You do not want him to keep comi�ng back." Mr. Else: "�Thy Not?" Mr. B7_O111CiL11St: "I do not think that it should be about anything to keep the�n frum coning back." .--. Mr. Hawks: "rhe few you have I do not t:hink it will help to keep on givi.ng extentions." "He has got himself all foule3 up and you -night just as w�ll let it go." "Then we have �1ad others where they never did finish with their plans." Mr. Brubacher: "i�e have one fellow t:�at is and has b�en. coming in each year for I d�n't know no;a many years saying that he has n�t finished :�is house." "He never will finish it. -14- The February 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning Cozn,nission .neeting minutes continued. Mr. Blonquist: "Iven in the case of our friend here." not Mr. Else�' "I an/sayinJ that each time an option runs out that the option has to be brought back to the Zo�zing and Planning Co_mnission." "But if it is for an adjustment then it must come back." Mr. Haw'�.s: "I would go along with that." Mr. Brubacher: "You feal they should be a��e to keep throwing in 30 dolla�s just to ke�p the adjustment open." Mr. Hawks: "Yes, I do." Mr. Brubacher: "I think that this boes back to ;ahy we let it start." If we �eel that wnen a man com�as in the 2n3 time he s:zould tell us w?ien he is going to start construction and then we can day we are sorry but we are not going to renew the permit and you �aill have to appear to the Zoning and Planning Co_�enission on this." "If this kee�s on you are going to find that the minimu-n fee � they nave to put in so much just so he can keep on looking." Mr. Strojan: "In the _nean time he is lo�king for so.ne �ne for the building." Mayor Milbert: "And in the mean time he never did get a building p�rmit for the one but is on 2nd, hand street." Mr. Else: "f�That about this o�cupancy permit?" Mr. Brubacher: "�Ky tliinking the �,nan could force you to give his money '�ack on this occupanc� permit business." I�Ir. Malecha: "Legally he would have the right to do th.�.t." Mr. Strojan: "It is the same as a building permit." "It is the same thing." "I think we would have to give him :zis money back; maybe only a refund of 50`%." .-. Mr. Brubacker: "Well somet;aing has to be set up some�ahere so we have a policy to follow." Mr. Sundby: "Well you fellows get together an3 bring in what you want." Mr. Brubacher: "I have aletter fro:�n '�Ir. Vesely: Febru,�.ry 22, 1963 City Manager and Hopkins Zonin; and Planning Co:n,-nission City Hall Hopkins, Minnesota Gentlemen: S��ne time after Nove.nber 27, 1962 there was displayed to me an excerpt of certain �ninutes of the Zoning and Planning Co.n,nission fro:n the _neeting of November 27, 1962 on the basis of w.zich I apparently was to take s�me action. It was also m3 understanding that there would be a conference with Mr. Ha�akes, the �ity Planner, but to this date no such conference has been '�eld, I am at a loss to understand exactly what the co:mnission would like to have me do. Gen�rally I h�ave b.en told that in some way the Zoning Ordinance probably should he amen3e3 to permit the construction of reside��tial quarters or apartments in com�nercial areas, perhaps on the floors above the first. I have also be2n told there is a feeling that perhaps a one dwelling unit apartment should be p�rmitted on the first floor of a comnercial establishm��nt -15- The February 26th, 1963 Zoning and Planning Co�nission meeting minutes continued, in the rear of the building. There is also some feeling that presently existing dw��llings locate3 in co�nercial areas should be allowed to be used for certain kinds of coirnnercial ventures so long as the daellings themselves n�ed no additions or alterations. � If all of the three objectives above set forth are to be seriously considered this will require a �or rewriting of the entire Zoning Ordin,�nce. For this purpose there should be certain standards adopted and established after public hearings so that I may know the general policy to be established. Fo.r example -- residential quarters normally require side and rear yard areas. They may or m�y not require parking facilities for apartment �wellers. I need to know wnat is the feeling with reference to an apartm�nt to be est- ablished on the ground floor to a presently existing co.�nercial building in so far as side and rear yard requirements are required. While it is true that in Hopkins, as in most cities, there presently exist living quarters within business establish�ents or located on the second floor over such structures. All of these cases w2re in existence prior to the e_�actment of the Zoning Ordinance and are therefore in the cateoory of "non-conforming uses," which uses un3er the terms of the Ordinance �ill automatically cease as soon as they cease to be. However, if the Ordinance is to bz a�ended now to permit similar uses in ne�ly constructed buildings, what is to happen to those in the "Non-conforming use class?" ^ Generally sp�aking the purpose of zoning is , among other things, to provide an orderly de�velopment of co�nunity life so that co;mnerce, industry and living quarters .�ay exist together each in a sep.�rate part of tne �nu.nicipality to the end that the general welfare and health of all citizens may '�e preserved. It is for this reason that residences are required to m.aintain side, rear and frunt set back lines so t�at �:�ere may be sunshine, fresh air, playgroun3 quarters for children and other similar facilities. It is also for this reason that the construction of apartments on t�e rear of business establish�ents is a step backward from the geneual purposes of zoning ordinances. Hoaever, in the case of apartment houses there is a general realization t�at su�h d��elling units are normally not intended for large families and for this reason such set-back re�uirements are usually somewhat rel�xed, but are n�ver entirely eliminated. If apartments are to be p�rmitted over commercial establishm��nts on the main street there should b? somP policy or rule established providing for at least the .ninimu� requirements of occupancy, set-backs, etc. ^ I would therefore resp�ctfully urge that this entire matter of apartments be accorded a real study so that a comprehensive amen3ment can be 3rafte3 into the zoning law. I would slos suggest that as to apartments attache3 to the rear of a coirunercial establishment this be very carefully considered with plenty of safeguards and other restrictions. With these thougnts in mind I would appreciate your further suggestions in these _natters. Yours truly, Jose�� C. Veseley, City Attorney Mr. Brubacher: Mr. McGannon wrote a letter, you got the above letter on it." "Wnat do we intend to do?" "Do �e intend to alloa apartments in connnercial buildings? Mr. Ha�aks: "Yes, but they have to be on� bedroo�n apartments." Mr. Brubacher: "Are ;ae not getting a lettle bite inconsistent, if we are trying to get - - � NL�.yor Milbert: "It is m;� understanding in this case that it would be all right." "�Ie �aould have orass etc." Mr. Brubacher: "In this case yes." Mr. Blo�quist: "�ou are goin� to h.�.ve to in all cases you will have to eliminate or -16- February 26th, 19�3 Zoning and Plannin; Co�runission meeting mzn.utes �ontimsed. waiver or no�a do you �;et your side and rear yards?" "Also the parking?" Mr. Brubacher: "Then I don�t tnink you have all of your ap�rtment co:-n�� in aith the main floor co:mnercial and the top flo��r apartments." Mr. Sundby: "�Tas this give:z to Jo�?" Mra.yor Milbert: "i�es, that is �ahat brou;;ht this up." Mr. Ha:a�s: "I think we are �nixing this up." "i�T`nat we s.aid was that *ae are going to have apartments in the doan-to�an area without p,�.rking require;nents." "In a "8-2" area apartme:�t there znust be one p.srking space per apartment." "But discoarage we �id �1����g�g� children by �.ave jms` o�e be3ro�:� fim each ap�.rtment." "$ut at the sa�ne time you can go into a hotel and rent two roo:ns if you ��ant to do so." Mr. Brubacner: "Are ,ae able to restrict this so that only the os�mer could live there and can you ',zave :n�.ny - - - -" ^ Mr. Hawks: "You can have both." Mr. Else: Wnexe ;aould these people put ther cars?" s Mr. Hawks: "You get less auto:nobile/in this kind of apartments." "f�nat we reconrnended was to encourage it." "As we think about it more �ahat we wrote 3oes not partain to side yards on any of these." M.r. Brubacher: "Was it your intention that it would be for on•� or m�re tnan one bedroo:n?" M,�yor Milbert: "If the Boaling ally wanted to have an apartment is not t:�at not one of the things you are sp��acking of?" Mr. Ha�aks: "On all 5000 sq, ft, lots you could :�ave te_n apartm�nts b�sides the ^ co-mnercail building." "So you can limit tne 3esnity if you �.aant to." "In a 50' x 100' •you can have four apartments." Mr. Blo,nquist: "This is where I run into a brick wall." Mr. Brubacher: "But is this w'nat you want now?" Mr. Stannard: "[�That sq, fo�tage did you reconnnend?" Mr. Hawks: "i�e :nad not treate3 it this way." Mr. Stann,ard: "Set it at 2500 sq, feet then." Mr. Sundby: "If you can explain it to Joe as you have explained it to us it should be alright." Mr. Sundby: "Mr. Stannard, do you w�.nt to explain you boundry :neeting with Minnetonka?" Mr. Stannard: "No they are going to send us all the ,ninutes and they have not done so .-. as yet." Mr. Brubacher: "Then there is this Edina thing." "They are willing to �aork with us on the streets 7th or 8th. Mr. Stannard: "Do ;ae have 2nough down there to want se;aer?" -17- The Febru,�ry 26th, 1963, Zoning and Planning Co:�nission m��2ting minutes continued. Mr. Brubacher: "The sewer is 450." Mr. Strojan: "That is rignt." .-. Mr. Brubacher: The only reason it might help us, we �ould run that into Edina." "If w2 �zad a larger develop:n�nt down there." Mr, Strojan: "It could be used i*n-nediately, if w� want to take the South area over there Iines instead of through St. Louis Park." Mr. Brubacher: "But as long as �e can pump as much as we want to pump though St. Louis Park then we should not go with Edina." Mayor Milbert: "But we should have some agreen��nt with tne:n." Mr. Brubacher: "W�a have to go up to M,�.loney; the lift station is right here." (Pointing to site on map). "We are going to have to pay good money to get in on it." Mr. Strojan: "Let's wait until they want to talk Water and then �ae will talk about the se�aer line." � Mr. Brubacher: "But our only salvation is an another line." "If this water pollution they bill gets in contral yb��b( both will want out, (that is St. Louis Park an3 Minn�apolis). "They have already said that they can not use the �Iinnesota River for any�.nore du.npage." Mr. Stannard; "D�n't run it past the Fort Snelling park." Minnetonka Mx, stannard: "wh,�.t can tne u�i�i�.�¢���LX���¢� do?" Mr. Brubacker: "Lay a line to :�Iinneapolis." Mr. Hawks: "Or over the hill to Shakopee," "That is one of the best plants in the area." iKr. Brubacher: "I think Minneapolis think the have the plan." "Their board cand ^ order Minneapolis to spen3 forty million on se;aer lines .�.nd they have to do so��� Mr. Strojan: "�hey are �xpanding right no�a." "rhat is the equip-nent to expand the plant is being psrchased." Mr. B.ruhacher: "Even with the expansion that would �.ot still be large enougn." Mr. Strojan: "That will be enough for right now." �Kr. Brubacher: "Z think that the sewer will get to Edina, St. Louis Park;and Bloo:nington only has seven years to go� with their plan. Mr. Stannard: "Do �ae :zave � contact with '_�Iinnaapolis an3 St. Louis Park?" Mr. Brubacher: "Yes, we have a contract with both." Mr. Strojan: "we pay Minn�ap��lis direct and then they pay St. Louis Paric," .-. Mr. Brubacher: "St. Louis Park tells us unless they can develop one of the golf courses ��"� they will not have to cut us off." (end of sew�r talk.) Mr. Ha�aks: "This is a bill that will cost eight million dollars for Paric property Mr. Brubacher: The sewer thing we are taking about is peanuts to the Ge��ral Hospital -18- The Fe�ruary 26t�, 1963 Zoning and �lanning Co�,nission .neeting minutes continu�d. "If they charge ss six times wnat the se�er is goin� to cost us w� �ill be getting off lucky. "' "The Hos�ital will easily cost us six time wlz.�t the se��r bill will be and the D�,�tors are pushing it." Mr. Malecha: "Wnat is the ap�osing it, who is fignting it?" Mr. Brubacher: "lhe Hennepin voanty League, Edina, Morning 9ide an3 St. Louis ParK have their attornies." M.r. Sundby: "Are we fighting it?" Mr. Brubacher: "No." Mr. Su:nd�y: "'�Te ,ai11?" "Or wont we, an3 if nr�t wn.y not?" Mr. Brubacher: "That is because no one :.an get the facts. :" "This thing has a click be'_zind it." Mr. Hawks: Basically the "U" is the :eneral Hospital for the State." "1Kinneapolis started their o�an ?�ospital m,�.ny years ago because they did not feel that ^ they were getting the service they wante�l from the "U"; now th,at the build- ings are all use3 up t?�ey want to cut back to the "U"." Mr. Brubacher: "The "U" is the �eneral Hospital for the ;anole state." Else: iKr. "What about St. Paul." Mr. Brubacher: "They are building a beautiful new oae." "St. Paul has a mur_h s�naller area and it takes in the county; bat the county is almost all city." "Every- thing over there is coun�y.'-' "But to get back to :�Iinneap�lis an3 that fight I am sure that a truck 3river for Min:�eapolis is not any better than ,�. Hopkins n�.n a.nd they pay their drivas $150.00 :nore a mo�nth; the ::ounty pay their men $100.00 :npre than the �ity of ,_„ Hopkins." Mr. Else: "1�That about tne State?" May�r vIilb�rt: "The State is lo�;a." ;Kr. Haw'�s: "Th� District Engin�er gets $12,000. ; Minn�apolises Engineer gets $20,000. Mx. Brubacher: "i�linneap�lis says that only 30% of the p�.tients are relief patients; 70nio co:ne fro�n some place alse." M,�.yor Milbert: "The buildin� is s� old no�a that they can't use it; they nave been re-bui3.ding it as long as they can," Mr. Brubacher: "rne General Hospital can�t be any further away from t:�e "U" t?�an it is no�a." Mr. Strojan: "Glen Lake is the same; Re3 Win� is t:�e sa-ne." "The State has not come � u� :�ith what th.ey thought they wanted an3 so tney b�ailt their o��an and now they are p,�.ying for it." Mr. Brubacher: "On this Parics thin;; they should get into the �ounty and I think they are justifie3 on this." Mr. Blonquist: -19- Th� February 26th, 1963 Zoning and Plannig Co:rnnis�ion meeting minutes continu4d. Mr. Blomquist: "They really p,�id for their parks �nd now they should get a part of it back." Mr. Hawics: "I a:n on a Co�mnitte� on Parks; Minneapolis feels that they have a little on their side here; they have 5000 acres of p.�.rks and golf courses .and the rest of Hennepin �oanty has 1200 acres." Mr. Else: "Do they include the Golf courses?" Mr. Brubac�:er: "Yes , they d�; they have done a nice job on parks." Mr. Brubacher brought out the lastest plans for the ne;a city hall. Evaryone looked at the;n. Mr. Else ask for an3 took a copy of the plans home. The _me2ting adjourn�d, � I � n